Gerard Baden-Clay
Gerard Baden-Clay

Gerard Baden-Clay grilled over affairs with women

GERARD Baden-Clay has conceded he was willing to say whatever was needed to get himself out of difficult situations.

"There's been a number of occasions when you had to say things to avoid the consequences of your actions during these couple of years, didn't you?" Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller asked.

"That's correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.

The accused man also admitted he was a liar who had deceived his wife, his lovers and his family and friends.

Mr Fuller: You deceived your wife Allison for four years?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: In fact it was longer than that wasn't it when you add in Michelle Hammond?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: You led her (Allison) to believe you were faithful?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: You led her to believe she was the problem in the relationship?

Mr Baden-Clay: No we both acknowledged there were issues in the relationship.

Mr Fuller: You led her to believe you wanted to change, that you wanted to make things different?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: That's why you went to the counsellors with her?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: You led her to believe you had chosen her over Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: But that wasn't the case was it?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes it was the case.

Mr Fuller: You led her believe right up until April 19, 2012, that Toni McHugh was a thing of the past?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: You let her check your phone, follow you on an app, take you to counselling but you never told her you were back in contact with Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: No I did not.

Mr Fuller: You didn't tell her you slept with her a couple more times after she discovered about the affair?

Mr Baden-Clay: No I did not.

Mr Fuller: You didn't even bother to tell her, you say, about the conversation of April 19?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: She wasn't the only one you were deceiving was she?

Mr Baden-Clay: No she was not.

Toni McHugh
Toni McHugh

Mr Fuller: You deceived Toni McHugh for four years?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: You led her to believe you had a future together?

Mr Baden-Clay: She allowed herself to believe that.

Mr Fuller: Not aided and abetted by you?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: This wasn't just some fantasy on her part was it?

Mr Baden-Clay: I think part of it was a fantasy, yes.

Mr Fuller: You'd given her a direct commitment hadn't you?

Mr Baden-Clay: I'd given her that indication, yes.

Mr Fuller: You told her in black and white that you intended to be with her by July 1 when you had separated from your wife?

Mr Baden-Clay: I sent that email.

Mr Fuller: That's April 3, 2012, isn't it?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: You wife had been off to see Carmel Ritchie on March 27?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: Your wife still had hope for you, for your relationship?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: Just as she had done with (psychologist Dr Rosamond) Nutting back in October, November, December of 2011?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: Just as she tried with Dr (Tom) George as early as early as June, 2009?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: Throughout that time she had been working at your relationship, taking you to counsellors and behind her back this is the message you are sending to Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: But you say this is some fantasy of Toni McHugh's?

Mr Baden-Clay: I said it was partly a fantasy yes.

Mr Fuller: Well let's look at April 11, just five days before you go to see Carmel Ritchie and talk about how you're going to solve your marriage. What did you mean this was agony?

Mr Baden-Clay: She had obviously indicated something was painful to her and I was responding to that.

Mr Fuller: You had told her a couple of weeks before this that it was agony hadn't you?

Mr Baden-Clay: I don't recollect.

Mr Fuller: Well you met in a coffee shop. It's the time you said 'we just can't see each other any more'.

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct

Mr Fuller: Because it was too painful for you. You couldn't do it - meeting up with her, sneaking around and still dealing with all the issues with Allison. That's what it was about wasn't it? The two of you couldn't be together?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: That pained you both?

Mr Baden-Clay: I indicated to Toni it pained me as she indicated it had pained her.

Mr Fuller: So you were just pained because she was pained?

Mr Baden-Clay: I often said to her things in order to placate her, what she wanted to hear.

Mr Fuller: How did you think that was going to affect this volatile woman?

Mr Baden-Clay: I hoped it would calm her down.

Mr Fuller: Because you told us that when you had to tell her in September, 2011, that Allison had found out she lost it?

Mr Baden-Clay: She did.

Mr Fuller: She became aggressive and angry at you?

Mr Baden-Clay: She did.

Mr Fuller: You told us that she threw things at you?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: You told us that in early 2012 she was suffering from anxiety and panic attacks such that she fainted at work?

Mr Baden-Clay: So she told me.

Mr Fuller: So it's against that background that you send that message to this woman while still trying to repair your marriage?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: I love you. They're words you said to her quite often aren't they?

Mr Baden-Clay: They are.

Mr Fuller: But you didn't mean them?

Mr Baden-Clay: No.

Mr Fuller: You were just saying them for the sake of the business when she was still there?

Mr Baden-Clay: I was saying them for the sake of the business and because I was concerned about her and because I wanted to maintain the sexual relationship.

Mr Fuller: Is that why you said 'I love you' on April 11, 2012?

Mr Baden-Clay: The reason I said that at that point was to placate her.

Mr Fuller: You say you're no longer sleeping with her?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: So you're not saying you love her to have sex with her?

Mr Baden-Clay: No.

Mr Fuller:  So what's in it for you? Why are you still conversing with her?

Mr Baden-Clay: She was conversing with me and I was trying to placate her.

Mr Fuller: And they're the words you chose - this is agony for me too, I love you.

Mr Fuller: How many times did you talk to Toni McHugh in the days before your wife disappeared?

Mr Baden-Clay: Not very often.

Mr Fuller: You went on to give her a date when you would be together - July 1?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: Which just happened to be your wife's birthday?

Mr Baden-Clay: Which also happens to be today. Correct.

Mr Fuller: But you didn't think about that when you sent that email? That was just coincidence was it?

Mr Baden-Clay: It was.

Mr Fuller: In the email where you're talking about separating there can be no confusion about what you're talking about there is there?

Mr Baden-Clay: No.

Allison Baden-Clay.
Allison Baden-Clay. QT file image

Mr Fuller: You're making a direct statement to her, backing up a commitment you had previously given her that you would leave your wife?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: You had given that commitment to her at her at the coffee shop the last time you met?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: You told her then you were leaving your wife?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: She gave you the option to walk away that day didn't she?

Mr Baden-Clay: No I didn't think so.

Mr Fuller: She actually said to you that if you want to be with her be with her? She gave you the out?

Mr Baden-Clay: I don't recollect it like that, no.

Mr Fuller: Toni McHugh was quite reasonable about all this in the circumstances wasn't she? She'd been through this a number of times with you making promises about a future together?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: After September of 2011 when your wife found out about her, you cut her from your life?
Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: But you couldn't live without her, could you?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes I could.

Mr Fuller: That's why you went back to her?

Mr Baden-Clay: No it's not.

Mr Fuller: You told her on that occasion that you loved her?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes I did.

Mr Fuller: But you didn't?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: So why did you say it on that occasion?

Mr Baden-Clay: Because I was concerned about her.

Mr Fuller: So the way of showing concern to a woman who you'd had to break up with and have no further contact was to tell her that you loved her?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: You told your wife in September, 2011, that you didn't love Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: You told all of us during your evidence that you were just in it for the sex?
Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: And had no emotional attachment to her?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: So why when you spoke to your staff about Toni McHugh leaving did you say that you that you loved Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: Because she had a relationship with some of those staff and I was concerned about her.

Mr Fuller: So you were willing to say whatever needed to be said to get yourself out of the situation?

Mr Baden-Clay:  In relation to that situation that's correct.

Mr Fuller: It's not just that one, there's been a number of occasions when you had to say things to avoid the consequences of your actions during these couple of years, didn't you? 11.07

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: You deceived your family and friends for that four-year period as well didn't you.

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes I did.

Mr Fuller: Led them to believe you were happily married?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: That everything was good within your relationship with your wife?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: That you were a success, that your business was going well?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: That's what was most important to you wasn't it - what people saw of you?

Mr Baden-Clay: I wouldn't say that.

Mr Fuller: You had a number of roles that you played?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: Doting father, doting husband, involved in the local chamber of commerce, part of the business community out there, a leader of it?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: You were involved in your children's school and of course, by the end of 2010 and the start of 2011, you've got Century21 emblazoned on Swan Road for everyone to see?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: You told us on a number of occasions that you didn't want to jeopardise your family?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: That's why you could never be in a relationship with Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: But you had been for a long time?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: That you had been sleeping with her to the knowledge of your business partners?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: You had slept with Michelle Hammond?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: Was she working at Raine and Horne when you were there?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: So you worked for them for a time, got your experience?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: And then set up right next door?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: Did you sleep with Michelle Hammond while you were still working for Raine and Horne or when you set up next door?

Mr Baden-Clay: It was after I had left Raine and Horne.

Mr Fuller: So you took their business and then had an affair with one of their employers?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: That was just for sex?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: You told us on a couple of occasions the real estate industry out there in the western suburbs is quite tight?

Mr Baden-Clay: Reasonably.

Mr Fuller: You weren't concerned about sleeping with employees of one of your competitors? Were you concerned people would find out about it?

Mr Baden-Clay: Absolutely.

Mr Fuller: You lived in the community, your children went to school in the community and your wife was involved in the community?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct

Mr Fuller: The Baden-Clays were fairly well entrenched in the Brookfield-Kenmore area weren't they?
Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: In return for all of your deception of all those various people, they all gave you their loyalty didn't they?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's correct.

Mr Fuller: Allison in particular was very loyal to you?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: Despite all your indiscretions she didn't tell anybody did she?

Mr Baden-Clay: No she did not.

Mr Fuller: She protected you, protecting your image?

Mr Baden-Clay: She was protecting us.

Mr Fuller: Because your image was quite important to your business?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Baden-Clay to face intense questions over death

MURDER accused Gerard Baden-Clay is about to face intense questioning from the Crown as they seek to prove their murder case beyond reasonable doubt.

His defence barrister, Michael Byrne, finished more than seven hours of questioning Mr Baden-Clay in the witness box with propositions the Crown would likely raise.

He asked his client to consider the position he was in on April 19, 2012 - the night he is accused of murdering his wife Allison.

Mr Byrne: Are you able to respond to this proposition that at that time you were under financial pressure and significant relationship pressure?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's not correct. Allison and I were working together very well on both our relationship and the business. Financially the business was turning around and we were moving forward, things were getting better.

Mr Byrne: Can you respond to this proposition that at that time you wanted to leave your wife and be with Toni McHugh?

Mr Baden-Clay: That's absolutely untrue. My intention was to end any relationship with Toni McHugh and solidify and continue to rebuild my relationship with Allison for our future together.

Mr Byrne: Can I ask you to comment finally on the proposition that those two women - Allison and Toni - were to come together again on the April 20, 2012 - did you have concerns about that?

Mr Baden-Clay: No. I didn't have concerns about it. Allison was not a confrontational sort of a person. They were at a corporate function. It didn't enter my mind to be concerned they were going to see each other there.

When asked about why no minimum $2406 credit card payments were made on the Baden-Clay credit card between January and May 2012, Mr Baden-Clay said: "That for us was not the priority".

"Allison and I made the determination that any excess funds and income we had needed to be focused on the other debts and priorities of the business," he said.

Mr Baden-Clay had told the court he rang the life insurance company to let them know about Allison's body being found under advice from his father Nigel, who set up the policies.

He said he had never filled out any claim forms.

The court has previously heard how Nigel Baden-Clay had worked in the life insurance industry.

 

 

 

 

Toni McHugh
Toni McHugh

Baden-Clay had wife and mistress at same conference

MURDER accused Gerard Baden-Clay says he was not concerned about his wife and his mistress attending the same real estate conference.

He told Brisbane Supreme Court that he received calls from Toni McHugh on April 19, 2012 - hours before he is accused of murdering his wife Allison.

Mr Baden-Clay said he never told Allison they would be at the same conference because that would have meant opening up "a can of worms".

He said Ms McHugh was "not pleased" about the fact Allison also was going to be at the conference in Brisbane on April 20.

"I didn't say very much," he said.

"She then called me back at a later stage expressing her displeasure about it."

Mr Baden-Clay said Ms McHugh asked him to tell Allison they would be at the same conference.

He said he did not agree and had no intention of telling his wife.

"While I was communicating with Toni, Allison did not know that," he said.

"I didn't want to open up a can of worms."

Mr Baden-Clay, who had promised to break all contact with Ms McHugh, said telling Allison would mean revealing her how he knew Ms McHugh was going to be there.

He said he was not worried about them both being at the conference.

"She was going to a conference where hundreds of people were going to be there," he said.

"There was no guarantee they were even going to see each other.

"Allison was a non-confrontational person and she would have Kate with her.

"So I wasn't concerned about Allison."

Mr Baden-Clay said he would have deleted the three calls from Ms McHugh from his phone history before he handed his phone to his wife when he got home.

He has previously told the court Allison had his password and would check his emails, calls and texts when he got home.

This, he said, was a condition placed on him after his wife learned of his affair.



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