Same sex couples' fury | Northern Rivers News | Local News in Northern Rivers

I would like to apologize to all the gay couples out there, the hurtful and offensive remarks made by this elected idiot do not reflect my beliefs.

If I have my wish, he will not be representing anyone after the next election.

Adults have the choice of whom they want to form relationships with. But the child will grow up only knowing what it sees to be "normal".

There is a difference between a hetrosexual couple being unable to concieve children to gay couples which it is physically impossible to concieve children. They know this when they go into the relationship.

They should go and buy a pet to love and care for together as a couple. The animal won't be picked on at school and in every day life.

I believe children have a right to know their mother AND father too. Thing is, the heteros aren't doing such a great job of that either in the past few generations. Too often I see poor little children being dragged up, not raised decently, by hetero females and hetero couples with a lot of those children not knowing their natural fathers or their natural father's family.

So before anyone in Government representation wants to question how successfully a same-sex couple will raise children, then they should take a good look at the existing mess they've made in paying unsuitable hetero people to have children, and in not having legislation to adequately protect children.

Children have a right to know their mother AND father, yes. But they also have a right to be protected, to have a decent, stable home, to be nurtured properly by their hetero parent/s. How about some adequate debate and legislation for that before you go knocking the same-sex couples?

What a shame in 2010 we still have these old fashioned and ill informed Politicians making our decisions for us. Children have the right to a happy, loving home. Who are we to say that 2 women or 2 men who love each other can't provide this?

There are many children who have no contact with one parent (usually the father) and are being raised by a single parent. Our society is made up of a lot of different family and relationship situations.

I haven't heard such narrow minded and judgemental views for a while and that's saying something.

It's time for the Coast to grow up, move out of the dark ages and learn some tolerance and acceptance. These Politicians certainly don't speak for me, but then again, I certainly didn't vote for any of them.

This state government is a disgrace.

I agree absolutely with Steve Dickson. Children have the right to a mother and father - to deny this this is tantamount to child abuse.

Just like two gay men can never provide fully for a child, neither can two gay women.

If they make a lifestyle choice - and I grant its theirs to make, they should accept the consequences and not expect to be able to drag children into it at their whim.

As tax payers we even subsidise their IVF treatment to help this!

I have no religious beliefs but believe this is a prime example of the decay of western society. Do some research and you'll see what really brought the Roman empire down.

What is better for a child? Is it better that a child be exposed to drunken violence and all that goes with it in a home and is it better that a child is sexually abused in a home by the father or is it better that a pair of intellegent caring women raise a child with male influence from extended family members?

I know which one I would prefer and it is not the traditional family set up of mum and dad.For some reason my father and my mother after my brother died when I was 4 years old changed in how they treated me.

There was much anger not as in physical abuse but emotional abuse and mental abuse though my father in particular was very quick with his hands to give me slap or two many around the head.

I am now partially deaf in one ear and am told I will eventually go totally deaf in that ear.Two caring women yes I think I would have fared much better and today would possibly be able to maintain a relationship which to date I have not been able to do ever .

The Member for Beige has shown his colours again. All people are entitled to take on the risk of being parents. It is part of their human heritage. In my opinion it is the attitude displayed by these LNP layabouts that is a threat to society.

Wong
Wrong
Wrong

We have lowered the bar.

Our moral compass is quite frankly stuffed.

Someone define our social values for us please! Because quite clearly they are a moving target.

Yes I disagree with the whole same sex thing. However, I remain respectful of them as people and of their beliefs and their way of life. That does not make what they do correct in any way shape or form. And to further propagate that onto children through surrogacy is quite simply immoral and wrong.

The only thing this act proves is that the only difference between right and wrong is time and place. It is NOT evidence of progression or moving forwards; so lets not pretend that it is.

A simple question then... What evidence is there that this is the will of the people that same sex couples can have kids through this surrogacy process. Is it the will of the people or the will of an unusually powerful minority?

I suggest this is not the will of the people at all.

All you liberal minded people will be the first to complain in the future when our society has no absolutes, no right or wrong and anarchy as the fruits of your pursuit of extreme leftist thinking.

This will be a bad, bad move.

How embarrassing to have such ill informed, archaic and offensive comments made by our elected politicians. Isn't it always the case, when someone is about to make a racially or otherwise offensive statement, that they always preface it with "...I've got lots of (insert cultural, racial or sexual stereotype) friends, but..." I don't usually vote Labor, but after hearing such drivel from the LNP, and given my opinion of the new Federal "leader", I'm certainly not going to vote for the Coalition.

You are joking? OMG so does that mean they are going to stop single women from having children then, oh and being that they are basically saying that gay people wouldn't make responsible parents what are they going to do about the scum that keep producing kid after kid that they can't look after, oh and are they going to sterilise parents that have their children legally removed from their custody - wake up people, again as I keep saying this is a changing world - 2010 not 1950. I know gay parents and have a good friend who is now an adult whom was bought up by gay parents and their is absolutely nothing wrong with him. Pull your heads out of the sand and start actually taking action towards parents that are irresponsible.

Here come the 'Moral Majority'.

It should be pointed out that 'Majority' actually means tiny minority who are so filled with bile and rage that they shout louder than anyone else to ensure their hate is heard by everyone.

I pity your sad little lives filled with nothing except finding ways to impose your bigotry on a society that has moved on from your irrelevant world views and just feels embarrassed that people like you still exist.

I knew I'd see it creep in sooner or later, courtesy of Adrian above: that phrase, "lifestyle choice".
What it seems to infer is that some conservatives actually think being gay is a choice.
WTF?
I have a scary feeling they believe being gay is something which started in the 1960s, perhaps thorugh drug intake listening to Jimi Hendrix or something.
It's scary because some of these people are actually in positions of influence like Bleijie, yet their knowledge of people and history isn't more than 40 years old.
Breaking news! Shock! Horror! Gay people have been around since humans have been around.
Deal with it.

Couldn't be any worse than what kids are like now - so good luck to you all :)

“Having children is not a right. It is a responsibility." I agreed with this, but then everything they said after is absolutely ridiculous.

"the desire of same-sex couples to have children was a want, not a need" WTF!

My wife and I don't NEED children, we might WANT them one day but right now we don't. Children are adopted by people who WANT them, not people who NEED them. Doesn't matter if you're gay or not.

same-sex couples having children is a want, not a need? since when does anyone need to have children?

But .. but Peter, if there is NO father present, the child is denied its so-caled "right" to hae a mother and a father!
If Dad dies while mum is pregnant -- the child is borne without a father, right? Now, ask yourself the question:

Is it better for that child to be raised by a struggling single mum in a poor environment where the child gets none of the special treats (including education) afforded the children who have two parent, or is it better that the child be brought up in a loving environment, where there are two people contributing to its welfare and future --- ?

It doesnt matter where the money comes from - a woman's money is worth every bit as much as the money that is contributed by a man ...

And, peter, more often than not - in a gay relationship, the child would see more of BOTH parents, than if its parents were male and female ... Especially WHERE one person is out working all the time then knocks of work for after work drinks, the occasional girlfriend, the odd dirty weekend away with another girlfriend, forgotten birthday presents --- Nup- I think I'd prefer to be brought up by two parents, together, regardless of their gender

Have another think about it peter - If you had been broughtup by a single mum - and she was struggling, dont you think you'd be better off with two mums, if another Dad can't be found?????

Peter please dont slip, until now You had my support, now im starting wonder where your priorities lay?

Ok.....I've read the story, and the comments, and I understand them all.
I don't remember getting a phone call from my local member ( what an appropriate term that is ) and having him say to me, Hey Andy, what do you recon about this....bla bla bla....
so on the strength of that point, I too would like to apoligise to all the gay people out there, and let ya'll know that this mans comments DO NOT reflect my views on the subject.
Strip away the opinions of the wowsers, the jesus freaks and the polititions, and you get to the real meaning of it all.
As long as the child is loved and cared for.......who cares. It doesnt matter, and it's none of your business.
I think that every person is capable of loving children, and I don't think it is right for these 'members' to force their archaic systems of belief onto anyone.
All the best of luck and happiness to those of you who are thinking about getting involved. And please remember that our local 'members' don't reflect all our views.
Andy.

wallet72 from Pelican Waters - Wake up! This has NOTHING TO DO with gay people. Its about the CHILDREN and their RIGHTS. This is SICK.

Amzing,
just amazing.
You know I was once on a plane from Sydney to Brisbane when the pilot helpfully advised passengers that ..:In NSW the time is now 10 past 11. ... and in Queensland it's 1954"

How right he was!

Really cloud15.... go and buy a pet to love, are you serious. Any person has a right to want and have a child, whether they can naturally conceive or not A child needs a loving, nuturing and happy home. Why can't same sex couple provided that????

And to say that they made a choice of lifestyle, are you really that shelted, open your eyes, gays have been around for centuries.

I do believe that children should have both male and female influence and you will find that gay couples have male and female friends and family that can provide the support needed.

Children that do have both sex parents are no better raised. There are so many single mums and single dads, in which the other party is not involved. What about women who get pregnant on purpose and then don't tell the father, are we to be accepting of that???

Look at foster care, how many children are in foster care? Isn't that a prime example that having a mum and dad doesn't work either.

Why do we accept IVF for hetrosexuals (which I am all for by the way) and not surrogacy for gays? Really it is both two couples trying to conceive a baby in which both a not naturally capable of .

When you have a child, you don't know what the future will hold and you do your best in providing and loving that child. Don't rob children of being loved because you don't agree with idea.

We are never all going to agree on the same things but we do have to be accepting that, this is someone's choice. lets be happy for them.

You know, studies have shown that most homophobia is the result of a deeper urge within. Perhaps our local MPs should consider counselling to explore their feelings.
I'm gay and I vote, and I will most certainly not be ticking the box next to any of these tossers.

I see more male/female couples who should never have had the right to breed.

How about passing a law that enables the courts to desex (yes I am purposely referring to animal surgery) parents who are contuiously found to be neglecting their children or putting them in harms way.

it is so disappointing to see some of these redneck comments. Have we not moved on as a society at all? Cloud15, a friend of mine is gay and has a son at my child's school - her son is being raised by 2 women. He is not picked on at school, as kids dont have the same bigoted attitudes as adults. They see his 2 "mothers" and think absolutely nothing of it. His life is a hell of a lot better than the kids I see with drunken mothers (a lot just kids themselves), and fathers who couldnt care less.

We seem to exist now in a world where it's all me, me, me....and not much about others (children included).

For what ever reason, right or wrong, there are those of us who are vehemently against the creation of jobs, school, sport grounds, and even homes for others. So it does not surprise me that that there are those of us who thinks that against all natural biological, social welfare, health and well being of others (children included), that the decision to have or not have children is their own.

Perhaps it is a bit self righteous to say so, but at least conventional traditional families are thriving (unless the NIMBYs of this world have their way of course).

drovers_cat - so if being gay is not lifestyle choice then what is it? Describe it as a mental illness and the wolf pack will descend on you like they did on that pollie a year or two ago.

Unfortunately it is a sign of the corruption and deceiver in action. Love the people hate the sin. Your comments seem relevant people but we need to go back to the Word Of God to see the answers. He does not and never will condone same sex partners, it is abhorant to him, he ceated us man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman.

How basic is this truth. However in the last days these degrading sins and beliefs will appear. Jesus says he loves you all, but listen folks, his Word is as true today as it was 2000 years ago. I encourage you all to read it, dont bash it or rubbish it, just read it and let God reveal his love for you. The truth will set you free. Guarantee it.

Gratetek from Kunda Park. Are you serious? What do you expect your state member to ring you every time there is a bill to debate to ask, Andy, what is your opinion on this mate?

If you want to engage in the political process and contribute your view to your member, get off your bum and call them.

That is the typical selfish attitude these days - sit around and wait for someone to contact you!

gobigone: That has given me the biggest laugh of the day

Years ago when I was studying Sociology of the Family at Uni I did an assignment on the psychological effects of children been raised in different family types. While I can't reference it now, I do clearly recall that one study indicated that those raised by same-sex parents were more tolerant than those raised in other family types - it was quite clear that (generally) children of gay and lesbian parents were happy, well adjusted individuals - just as much as those raised in functional hetro families. For memory there's also less domestic violence in same-sex couple relationships too....

Yes - the kids may get teased at school, but if they're too tall, too short, too fat, too thin, wear glasses, have the wrong hair cut, etc... they're going to get teased. If they have a loving, stable environment at home then the impact of the teasing will hopefully be less. It's the kids who are being picked up from school by their drunk parents who we should really be worried about... why are these people allowed to breed at will??

Thanks 'gobigone'. JUST when I thought the sunshine coast might be changing your comment just reminds me of where I'm living...

Personally I don't think the hetero's are doing a good job at the moment...(there are exceptions though)

I am with you tinkerbell.I am a product of a gay mother and I have turned out ok.I think it nis absolutely ridiculous that gay ppl can't make good,responsible parents.I can not see how being gay changes aq persons ability to be a parentI have three children all of whom have been denied a father becsause they're dads chose to not stick around,they are also denied they're fathers families and not by my choice.Those men are allowed to go and have more children and abandon them.I found the comment I heard on the news about how gay couples would take they're children to the public toilet.Hmmm that is funny,hello I am a single mum of three boys and where do you think all my boys went to the toilet when they were little?In the ladies of course so what is the difference?A little girl can't go to the tiolet with her father waiting utside the toilet cubical?ever heard of parents rooms which most shopping centres have,they are male and female and usualy have a toilet for children.There is absolutely no real reason why gay couples should be denied children.Children deserve to be brought up in a happy healthy enviornment and if two people of the same sex can do that,then why shouldn't they?There are many hetrosexual couples who have children and don't care for them and the courts system continually gives children back to parents who have neglected or abused they're children.

This subject sure brings the idiots out of the woodwork. The scary part is that they are representing us. Euthanasia gets them going too. They are narrowminded fools imparting propaganda upon the public. Do you seriously think that this is going to be an issue in 20 years time, show some forethought.

Whether you have two 'mum' or two 'dads' who cares....as long the child is raised with love and respect for themselves and others that is all that matters.
There are plenty of mums/dads out there that should NOT have had children.

This 'member' is being paid by us....the working, home owning public.
If someone is going to speak on my behalf, I'd like to agree with what he's saying. But anyway, as usesal, you have missed the point. It's about same sex couples having kids.......NOT about spinless pollys claiming to know what the general population of the coast want.

its scary to realise the people Im living amongst - those with such narrow minded views. I mistakenly thought the majority would be more enlightened by now.

adrian of buderim - seriously?!?

Sexuality is hard wired into people when they're developing as a foetus, it's not an illness nor a perversion. Just like whether you're left or right handed - about 10% of the population are lefties; about the same percentage as those who are gay or lesbian.

The only reason it's considered wrong is because a book written a couple of thousand years ago indicates that it is - this same book indicates that menstruating women are dirty and should be locked away for 7 days per month. Left-handed kids were considered to be the spawn of satan and were forced to write with their right hand... all seems pretty ridiculous now, doesn't it?

Why are Christians so happy to pick and choose which passages of the bible are applicable to modern society?

A child needs to be nurtured and loved and have boundaries and support....who gives a flying rats wether that is from two parents of the same sex or not...come on guys, get yourself with the times....AS long as a child is loved and nurtured and looked after, does it matter......

As for Cloud15, I have gay friends who have children and they would have to be the most well adjusted and loved kids I know....cheers to there parents for raising such beautiful boys.....

ah. the good old sunshine coast. grow your hair long, cover that red neck.

banjo duels at sundown, under the eyes of the good lord (sounds like tobydog has a direct line to he-of-the-upstairs). to the victors go the spoils, being the privilege of raising a family.

adrian asks this cat: so if being gay is not lifestyle choice then what is it? Describe it as a mental illness and the wolf pack will descend on you like they did on that pollie a year or two ago.

answer: it's normal, mate; normal as anyone else

The purpose of the Surrogacy Bill is to decriminalise altruistic surrogacy and provide a legal mechanism for the transfer of parentage of a child born as a result of an altruistic surrogacy arrangement from the birth mother to the intended parent/s. The Opposition unsuccessfully sought to specifically exclude same sex parents from the reform.

Its quite obvious from the highly vocal *minority* posting to this blog why this legislation has gotten up.

nickstar, the bible has nothing to do with morals and I dont read it any more than you do. In the same vein as your argument, susceptibility to mental illness is also hardwired into people while they are a foetus - does that mean we should encourage it.

Tradition can be suffocating. There is so much evil, distress, tragedy and heartbreak in the world...let the people who love, love. And may children arrive to loving parents whoever they be. A child's psychological need is for love, not tradition!

Does it really matter who raises the children? as long as they are loved and well cared for that is the most important thing. Why should having a child be restricted to heterosexual couples? I know some gay couples who would make amazing parents and would probably do a much better job than a lot of us. There are plenty of bad heterosexual parents out there doing a bad job but no one is stopping them from having more babis.

I have nothing against gay or lesbian relatioinships and its what ever they decide to do, but we need to remember that children will be bullied in all aspects of life and teased about 2 mummys or 2 daddys confusing for a childenough when a mother or father split.
Good luck to those who can manage to explain it to the children in a very understanding way.

When the self-righteous heterosexuals from Pleasantville get it out of their heads that gay people are not sex maniacs, not paedophiles, not sex stalkers, not whatever other ridiculous interpretation they want to lable gays as, they may be able to look at this matter with a Year 2010 outlook.

Gays suffer the typical "minorities" stigma. If one is bad, they're all bad. Maybe Mr Bleijie could get out a bit and look at the whole of Australia, not just the cocoon he lives in.

I have a wife of 38 years, three kids & 3 grandkids and I'm not "one of them'.

These politicians aren't criticising fathers who abandon a wife and kids and leave the kids to be raised by a sole parent! Double standards!
And why are people worried about kids getting bullied at school? Teach your kids to be loving and accepting of people from all backgrounds.

how is it that a woman who is part of a heterosexual couple "needs" children but the woman who is part of a homosexual couple only "wants" them?
And Mr Bleijie, are you suggesting that a couple stays together, as a couple for the term of the life of the child so that they can and will always have "traditional" parentage?
There are a number of comments by LNP and Independent members, as well as people on this site stating two homosexual men or two lesbian women are unable to fully provide for a child. Are these people suggested that children be removed from all single parent homes because if a gay couple is unable to provide for a child, what chance does a single parent have?

Over centuries our morality and society was held together through the sacred institution of heterosexual marriage.Now throughout the western world these standards are being abandoned.Is it any wonder that some societies see the west as the epitomy of evil and will even use force to avoid contamination from it.
Just consider gay and lesbian parades,if the heterosexual community displayed themselves in public in a like manner we would probably all be arrested.
Let us get back to some standards in this country instead of yellow spined liberalism.
I congratulate the MPs who had the courage to speak out and oppoase this bill.

Would these 2 out of touch LNP members had said the same thing if the were allowed a conscience vote?
I bet NOT!.

I’m now going to look at the Parliament website to see what all our local right wing Christian Zealots said.

Some of you people talk about " This is 2010 " , get with the times, this is the day and age we live in blah blah blah, that is all a cop out. The crazy lost out society we live in has been created by cases like this getting out of hand from the very small minority of wrong doers that feel their disease is something they were born with. Wake up everyone. G

All the sex on TV is a classic example of this " This is 2010 " rubbish getting carried away.
Face it people, this sort of thing WILL increase the spread of AIDS. Do we really want our children growing up exposed to sex all of the time???

If I can direct everyones attention to this previous article for some proof of my statements...
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/...
-nursing/#c74289

Thanks for clarifying that Peter Baulch. Actually the issue is about protecting the rights of the child -

Children are not commodities!-

If parents are not naturally able to conceive - maybe there is a message there.

I am not religious by any means but believe that it is the civil liberties of the child here we need to protect, nothing to do with gay bashing at all!

Peter you are a Labor Party hack - keep trotting out your usual socialist left wing party lines.

Time will show us the rewards of such liberalism.

The people here defending this decision are some of the bloggers quick to launch a tirade against other characteristics of our society and yet ponder how we got there?

Hypocrites the lot of you.

I really love living here on the beautiful Sunshine Coast.
Where else is there an inordinate number of born again christians ramming their outdated, irrelevant, self righteous and boring view points down people's throats?
Kids just need parents who love and care for them - makes no difference what sex they are.
Take your bibles and your bull**** and ship out.

I find it interesting that everytime this debate comes along it is always accompanied by pictures of a nice looking female.

Never is it accompanied by a pair of sick looking homsexual males who are sufering from HIV or some of the "females" you see in pictures of the madigras. Always good looking lesbians.

Once you set the rules you cannot descriminate on how good they look or act. I know some gay people and I really don't think that they should have children.

Ed, Noting the responses posted to the above story; how many of us have taken time to check out what was actually said in the Queensland Parliament on this particular piece of legislation? As a person who was on a political party's policy committee, one policy that was on our agenda related to equal rights for same sex couples and other related issues.

Whilst we are all entitled to have our say and have our beliefs, even our politicians had the right but some responses remain questionable. Yesterday, I tuned into 4BC talkback radio here in Brisbane and a very powerful account by a individual who was asked by his three year; dad where is your father?

We know that you have a dad and that is what seems to be forgotten. This person wanted to get in touch with his "biological" father not the dad that raised him. Up to yesterday, he has encountered brick walls and no resolve in the future.

So, the right of the child comes first than the right of the adult. If we as members of the public got off our seats and engaged with all politicians, then we wouldn't be in the mess today.

Perhaps we should also consider joining a political party and have some input into policy creation? This country continues to slide backwards and our standards have reduced over the last 40 years.

We should also consider that two ALP politicians couldn't support the government's legislation even though, it is now passed.

Hmmmm Once again the gay debate is brought to the forefront. Hmmmm
Children have the right to have a mother and a father? Parenting is not a need it's a responsibility? What about the human desire to recreate and pass on genes to the next generation? This is an instinct not a responsibility.

Ummm how many teenage gay people get pregnant? Ummm how many 'unwanted' pregnancies result from one night stands from gay people?

How many heterosexual couples conceive a child when they can't afford to raise another one in the already struggling household??

When a gay couple want to raise a child they are normally in a much better financial position to raise a child. They bring to a home no prejudice, no judgement and no conflict. It's people in the outside world who judge and belittle.

I'm sure I read someone saying the child of gay parents would be teased at school - the only way that would happen is if the child teasing was brought up to judge others.

Does anyone oppose IVF for anyone who is black or blind? No, because that's judgemental!
This entire debate is old and backdated and ridiculous. Gay people are big contributors to society and are a lot more understanding than half of you will ever be.

Don't blame the bible or the way you were raised on your beliefs. Blame your own narrow mindedness and insecurities. Everyone is born equal, it's just the weak who try to riducule others to get ahead in life cos they have nothing better to do.

DS - from Buderim. The Opposition and Government both had a conscience vote!

Choose to be gay, that's your right.
But a child doesn't understand that yet, and has EVERY RIGHT to have A MOTHER and A FATHER, as they should!
Gay couples are sooooo selfish to force children to adapt to what they want.

Bye Bye Jarrod.
One less bigot after the next election with my vote hopefully.

This is fantastic news, at last I can have the child that I have always longed for. I only have to find a women who is willingly prepared to go through the indignities of artificial insemination, 9 months of pregnancy and child birth only to give the baby up, oh and not get any payment for it. Get a grip people; this is hardly going to open the flood gates.

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 13
Second Timothy Chapter 3.

Please read these and then make some comments relating to it everyone.

Disgusted. Kids shouldn't be manufactured like this. Glad the poll shows I'm in the majority.

Yeah to the politicians for their stand. A mother and a father is as it should be

Christians do not pick and choose what passages of Scripture they think are applicable to modern society, as Nickstar asserts. The whole of the Bible is relevant - more relevant that tomorrow's newspapers!

In both Old and New Testaments the message is clear - God is holy and hates sin, whatever the form and wherever it is found. Because He is holy He must also call sinners to account for their sins. And He will.

No need for me to cover ground already well-stated in this debate, but it was God who instituted the marriage union to be exclusively between a man and a woman. The union of persons of the same sex HE calls an abomination. It is totally unnatural.

And just think of it for a moment - we don't pick and choose what moral laws we will accept and live by, and what we will reject as unacceptable to us.

OK - let's go the way of the many in disregarding such laws of God as what pertains to marriage, the exclusive union between a man and a woman. What about discarding the moral laws altogether, for the laws of our land in this regard were based on God's moral law enunciated in the Scriptures.

Let's do away with the laws to do with murder, and stealing, and fraud etc. have have a society FREE from ALL moral laws. Would you like that? What kind of a society would it be if that were the case? It's bad enough now WITH those laws, as people violate them without a conscience. The Bible says that "the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

There's nothing wrong with the law of God - the trouble is with our own sinful hearts. Psalm 2:1-3 is most relevant, as it exposes our present society rebelling against the commands of God, and declaring openly and unashamedly that they will not have God's laws governing their lives. And Paul the apostle rightly said (if we are honest enough to admit it) that we are alienated from God and "enemies (hostile) in our minds by the wickedness we do."

Thank God HE in His love and mercy has made a way for us to know full pardon for our offences and peace with Himself, through faith in Jesus Christ, who died on account of OUR sins.

He has borne the curse of the law which WE have broken, and if we come humbly to Him, repent of our sins and trust in Christ alone to save us, He will do just that. That's good news! Please don't knock the Christian who has good news for you - even though you find the 'bad news' somewhat unacceptable.

Parenting is not dependant on your sexuality; parenting is a gift of giving a new individual guidance through life. There is nothing to say that a couple man & man, women & women can not provide the guidance a child needs.

We should not really be surprised (about the comments made by our local State MPs)... The fact of the matter is that they are from the conservative side of politics and their voting is reflective of what (the majority of) their constituents believe.

Remember these issues next time you vote.

Regardless of what we all believe - we should respect our democratic processes, in this case - that means that altruistic surrogacy is now allowed. End of story.

By the logic of some people around here single expecting mothers should be pressured into having terminations, since they're irresponsibly going to raise a child without a father.

But no, the opposite is true! But one should not expect rationality from the bigoted.

If you read the ancient texts that your bigotry is based on you'll discover the reason 'god' frowns upon homosexual men is because one of them in such a union will be behaving like, you guessed it, a woman!

I expect that kind of rubbish from tired old theocratic misogynists, but it's really alarming when I hear women parroting this senseless nonsense.

Grow up!

This is not a discussion about who are the better parents to place a child with - heterosexual or same-sex couples or single people.

We are talking about “planned children” who have not yet been conceived.

The bill that was passed is about 2 separate issues:
1. decriminalising altruistic surrogacy as a last resort for heterosexual married couples who have exhausted all other avenues; and
2. the ability for same-sex couples or single people to have children through altruistic surrogacy.

The 2 issues should have been dealt with separately and in fact, the LNP put forward an alternate bill that did just that and sought to decriminalise altruistic surrogacy as a last resort for heterosexual married couples.

Instead of looking to the best interest of the child, a “planned” child, the socialists in charge have combined all these issues into 1 bill and made it an argument for the rights of same-sex couples.

The Labor Prime Minister does not support same-sex marriages. Same-sex couples and single people are not able to adopt children that are already born and need homes. Why on earth would a government legislate to allow same-sex couples or single people to have surrogate children (and we are talking about surrogate, planned children – not children who are already born and need a loving home)!

I congratulate Jarrod Bleijie and the other members of the house (including 2 Labor members who crossed the floor who had the guts to stand up for the rights of the child) that voted against this disgusting piece of legislation by the Bligh Labor Government.

Firstly!! I have a very close Gay Friend.
They are great people... Excellent with Kids and probably much nicer people than a lot of hetrosexual people I befriend. But!!!!!!

Obviously there is a reason for the need for Surrogacy for Gay couples..

Two eggs wont make a baby...
Two sperm wont make a baby...

Sperm and egg.. make a baby...RIGHT??

And until they do I think it is very strange that we seem to think we can continually push the biological boundaries!!

I think there is a reason that two men.. or two women are unable to create new life!!! It isn't natural..

If you choose to be gay and go against nature.. that is your choice!!

But who gives you the right to make that choice for an unborn baby!!!

We silence ourselves to easily. Because we are in a world where people are so easily offended.. and find every single comment.. sexist, racist, biased, discriminative.. blah blah blah!

I am so glad we have elected people who aren't afraid to stand for whats right!! Despite what todays "modern world" finds acceptable.

Do you forget that we are living in a world that now celebrates divorce, encourages having physical relationships with robot and is pushing to make death a legal choice???

Kinda scary... Are there no limitations any more on what humans can and can't do?????

I have just been reading through the comments and it seems members of the public are confused. To the LEFT: it is allowed (altruistic surrogacy has been decriminalised to all parties, straight and gay).
To the RIGHT: you lost this one.
Sometimes we are so passionate about the argument that we forget the message.

wow, after reading the above comments I now see that narrow minded, outdated fundementalism is rife on the Sunny Coast. Peter Wellington I thought you were a good bloke but after this stance I can safely say you have lost my vote. all children need is stability and unconditional love and who am i and who are you to say same sex couples can't provide that. My nephew has 2 mothers and 2 fathers who swap him around every 2 weeks and they are in "traditional relationships" so he goes to school talking about his 2 dads and 2 mums and he is never teased about it because most of the other kids are in the same situation.

adrian - like it or not, traditional 'morals' in Western society are based on Christian teachings. You're right that I don't regularly read the bible, but I can tell you that the reason many bloggers feel so strongly against same-sex couples is because they have been raised to believe homosexuality is 'wrong' (ie: against god's will).

As for mental illness being encouraged - I hardly think as a society we 'encourage' homosexuality - it's a matter of accepting people regardless of difference. Mental illness is often something that can be treated as it is an 'illness' - some people with mental illness have trouble participating in society without treatment. Homosexuality is not an illness therefore cannot be treated, nor does it need treatment.

Gobigone - I think you'll find that AIDS is being spread through the hetrosexual community at a far greater rate than the gay community - look at Africa and the increasing number of hetro men going on 'sex' tours... that's where disease is spread.

Golfito - want to see a regular hetro mardi-gras? Go down to Mooloolaba any Friday or Saturday night and see near naked women being groped by drunk men. Ironically, mardi gras is a traditional Christian celebration carried out on Shrove Tuesday... how about that!?

brianbarry123 - this is going to shock you... homosexual men and women look just like the rest of us - how many of your gay friends look like emaciated AIDS suffers? Plus, I know HEAPS of hetrosexual couples who shouldn't have children

The silver lining of this debate is that it's encouraging to see how many bloggers here are supportive of the legislation - not all is lost on the Sunshine Coast! I thank those bloggers who have been raised by gay or lesbain parents - it's your insights that we should all be paying most attention to.

this from brianbarry123 from Maroochydore:
I find it interesting that everytime this debate comes along it is always accompanied by pictures of a nice looking female.
Never is it accompanied by a pair of sick looking homsexual males who are sufering from HIV or some of the "females" you see in pictures of the madigras. Always good looking lesbians.
Once you set the rules you cannot descriminate on how good they look or act. I know some gay people and I really don't think that they should have children.
*******
i have this to say to you... Go back into the hole you crawled out of. You imply that all homosexual males are sick looking and suffer from HIV. You suggest that some of the women you see at the mardigras are not actually females.
Join us in the year 2010 rather than living in the dark ages.

Woohoo!

Let's break open the jelly crystals and celebrate.

@aeromorg - nothing wrong with the law of god? whose god? there are plenty to choose from, with plenty of differences of opinion as to what is right or wrong. also, i think you'll find marriage existed well before christianity...

@sunnicoaster - choose to be gay? careful now.

@gobigone - this sort of thing will increase the spread of aids? how so? i can't see how same sex parents raising a child can spread aids. if you can enlighten me, please do.

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend homosexuality, for example, I will simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other laws in Leviticus and Exodus and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as stated in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how can I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine says that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's Word is eternal and unchanging.

Oh, by the way Bible bashers..

Checkout Deuteronomy chapter 22 verses 13-21.

A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed.

Sweet, nothing like a good old fashioned public execution to take us back to the dark ages where some of you bloggers belong.

The next part of Leviticus that god bothers love to wave about also bans eating shellfish and mould so if you dont mind a prawn at christmas or some camembert cheese with a glass of wine... well... see ya in hell people! You gonna be down there with the gays according to your redneck beliefs.

boyfromoz - a good point! I do need some advice, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. What if I don’t want Kiwis?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
4. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of threads (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I am sure that these bible bashers have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident they can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

oh and for the record... Wallet72.. what makes your comment "elected idiot" any less Hurtfull or offensive???

So I guess I would like to apologise to all the elected MPs for the remarks of this reader who obviously was not taught that two wrongs don't make a right!

wallet72.. didn't your fathers ever teach you that?? Or mothers?? or do you have one of each??

Dont mean to be rude! Just the kinda question we will all be obliged to answer if this all goes ahead!

debbiemagee,

You left out the bit where 'god' tells that bloke to send his virgin daughters to the sodomites instead of letting them rape his friend.

Hell of a moral teacher this god fellow - murders his own children, and encourages you to too!

I look forward to all of the local NRL and AFL players being herded into the Plaza on a Sunday and watching the whole caboodle burn to the ground.

Or do the christians of the Coast not believe in those bits of the bible?

I was going to comment about some of the loony bible bashers on this forum, but debbiemaggee, you said it for me. Incidentally, I have no issues with Christianity or any other religion, I only have issues with the fundamentalist claptrap spouted by posters such as gobigone etc. However, it is sad that all Christians are tarred with the same brush, as there are many forward thinking Christian writers, such as the Anglican Archbishop, Rowan Williams, who certainly do not hold such offensive and ignorant viewpoints.

Debbie Magee, Suncoastlass

You. Are. Awesome.

Glad to see there are some people out there who haven't got red staining their neck.

I do love the circus. Usually...

You'd all be hilarious...if you wern't so sad.

For those that are blinded, lost and consumed in their hatred of whatever or whoever - try to remember - that while you're all having your spiteful, venomous, judgemental, twisted little gay/religious war... there's a small child standing over in the corner crying, cowering.

The whole thing kinda has the feel about it of your good old fashioned everyday domestic... Sickening.

This was about what's best for the kids. But don't let that keep you from foaming at the mouth like raving lunatics...

How many people here, of ANY KIND, are not worthy to be parents?

A few, I would venture.

This has been the story that has kept me entertained all day. Thank you to all posters! Fingers crossed that Monday brings another great story!

well said debbie. The bible quoters need putting in their place.

And to whoever said "choose to be gay"- well they need to reread the facts regarding homosexuality.

And boyfrom oz, lol, I'll have to tell my husband our marriage is not valid.

Debbiemagee has shown that the whole bible argument about homosexuality being wrong is completely invalid since the bible says a lot of things - plenty of which are complete claptrap.

You kind of miss the point, Zorro.

Those of us atheists/"anti-religionists"/non-fundamentalists are arguing that its a good thing that gay and single people are being allowed to benefit from surrogacy because at the very least the children born into this would be wanted instead of being produced to fulfil a holy duty

as usual the deviant supporters have got it all wrong.
Its not normal and neither are any of "those" people that i have ever seen.
Evey one of "those" couples i see has one playing the husband and one playing the wife.
Now they want to fulfil their "families" by having kids.
sounds more like a recruitment drive to me

boy

I did not say that all homosexuals had aids. I was making the comment that you never see pictures of those who do. In fact I doubt that you would ever see pictures of male homosexuals in these campagns always attractive females.

Also I did not imply that the lesbians were not females only that they did not look like females.

So far as HIV is concerned my wife lost a counsin (who was also a golfing parter of mine until the desease took too much out of him) to the deasease a few years ago and I know what they look like.

Ha, haa... So funny!

"The bible quoters need putting in their place." And yet dm quotes at least eight texts. Ha...

No, dm, I didn't miss the point.

I said - "How many people here, of ANY KIND, are not worthy to be parents?

And, of course, conversely, ARE worthy.

ibid, Zorro.

And thanks for purposely misreading the argument.

I did not mention 'bible quoting'. I mentioned people who are blinded by hatred and use a 2,000 year old novel to back up their bigotry.

Zorro: I was pointing out that you lump us who think that people are people in with the religious types who think that people should be categorised and that some categories are worthless; an idea supported by Himmler.

We are not claiming that religious people are not worthy parents, although from these blogs it appears that some of them are, or would be, terrible parents.

“I know gay people. I've got gay friends. I'm not opposed to those people.”

haha the oft quoted line of the classic homophobe. "those people" huh - are they not the same type of "people" as you and me. How anyone can claim to support gay people and then refer to them as "those people" is beyond me. Do your gay friends support your views on this matter?
If two people genuinely love each other and are able to provide a loving home for a child what does it matter their sexual orientation. The pollies are happy to condemn this but children continue to be abused in so called "traditional" families and no one is questioning whether these "traditional" families should be having kids.

Lets stop focusing on the sexual preferences of the parents and start being more concerned about the environment children are being brought up in.

brianbarry: how many pictures of heterosexual people with HIV/AIDS do you see?

I can't remember the last picture of any HIV/AIDS victim I saw in any mainstream press

ps: brianbarry: Do you actually know what a lesbian is? You normally have interesting arguments and blogs but this lot today is very strange.

Has someone stolen your login?

dm - "I did not mention 'bible quoting'.

Huh..? I know...curriman did.

You're not nice when you get all reactionary like this, dm. When you fail to see that I've agreed with you, just in a different way. You become too interested in contention for the sake of contention.

Sorry dear, no exegisis tonight. It's too close to dinner.

I didn't lump you anywhere - I (a) pointed out the level of vitriol and bigotry in the course of the day and (b) redirected the focus onto the child - not you (or anyone else). Can you deal with that?

Great. Bye.

thank you for allowing the publication of all of these comments. Well done freedom of the press. I find it difficult to understand how the bible touting moralists can pass judgements on others, patricularly with such unkind and bigotted remarks. I also see in my daily life a small selection of ignorant, unreliable, unpleasant, unemployable, bigotted, and destructive people who have been able to breed in the traditional heterosexual manner without aid and am unable to understand how these offspring are going to be able to grow up and become functioning adults. Love kindness and a willigness to improve society are better indicators of who should raise children.

Thanks to debbiemagee and suncoastlass - this is exactly what i was referring to in an earlier post about 'picking and choosing' which parts of the bible to live by.

aeromorg, please help me understand why we 'ignore' these lessons from the bible, but not those about homosexuality?

My aunt is a Jehova's Witness - her bible tells her that receiving blood transfusions is wrong.

Surely any god would cherish any individual who is caring, loving and good. Are you telling me that priests who have abused children (and those that covered their crimes up) are better people than those in a consenting homosexual relationship?

I am not anti religion (some of my best friends are religious....) but I really do struggle with the hypocracy. Please tell me what I'm missing....

"I can't remember the last picture of any HIV/AIDS victim I saw in any mainstream press"

debbie this is Precisely the point I am making.

The photos that are used in this type of campain virtually always are attracive lesbians (and yes I know what they are). They never have male homosexuals nor do they show "butch" female lesbians.

I myself do not particularly agree with the insue, however it would be impossible to stop a lesbian having a baby if she wanted to have one) it is just the way it is presented that I have a problem with.

I also meant to say that I know there are a lot of hetrosexuals that suffer from HIV and other deseases and photos of these sufferers are not generally presented in public as well but I do believe that if they intend to allow male and female homosexuals to access surogacy then the homosexual lobby needs to put more of a face on than attractive lesbians.

See... sometimes (rarely, tbh) the Muslims do things a little better than us. This is one example.

Not curriman. Chillibin. Sorry.

yes i mentioned bible quoting - im sure you know what i mean. I was applauding Debbie for calling the bible guy out.

Some people here have the most bigoted dangerous attitudes - I compared those attitudes to a certain event in history which unfortunately did not pass the SCD censor. All I can say is beware of intolerance, it is extremely dangerous.

brianbarry: I still don;t understand your point.

Is that you object to 'butch' women having babies?

Is it that HIV/AIDS is a gay disease so we must protect children from them?

Is what you are trying to say? I really hope it isn't as it is frighteningly close to Eugenics

WOW, reading peoples comments have been an eye opener. In this day and age are people still really that small minded and so old fashion. I bet you are the same people that write in all the time and winge about the 'younger generation'. Get a life, put all your energy into something worth while. Things ARE different now, its called progress.

There really should be no agruement here, don't judge people, it's that simple.

I know plenty of parents that do a crap job of raising their children, or the girls that have lots of children to so many differnet fathers. Kids need LOVE and RESPESCT and two loving parents, if it comes from two male parents or two female parents, so be it.

What Crap, If you could ask a child who would he / she want to grow up with, and after describing the so called love/ relationionship behaviour between gays, I would imagine the child would vomit . Imagine that little school child coming home to find gay Dad and gay Dad slobering over each other, now wonder children need so much psychiatric help these days.

Yes, chillibin, I did know what you meant. No worries. And I think you know what I meant too.

I agree with you about intolerance - although I prefer the word "judgementality".

Nickstar - What you (and others) are missing, is to take what dm and suncoastlass have said - and study it out for yourself to see if they are right or wrong - to see if you really do agree or not - to see if it's in or out of context - to see whether they have, as you say, picked and chosen or not. To see if they're just saying, or you are just hearing what you (anyone) wants or needs to hear - as we are all prone to do.

Then, and only then, will you know for sure - and won't feel like "What am I missing?".

This goes for any issue where people will throw up lots of Biblical material. Don't just blindly accept what someone, anyone tells you, no matter how good or right it may sound or seem - test everything by the book yourself.

You may be a while...

Rasta Bob nails it - "Brothers we must know, and not (just)believe."

And yes, I agree, hypocricy is everywhere. You don't have to be religious.

Good to see the parliament made the correct decision. Queensland is slowly catching up with the rest of Australia.

I am NOT religious. I am NOT gay. I am a person who believes that children deserve a mother and a father. I have known so called GAYS. I would describe them as unnatural deviants of the human race. The only affect that they had on me was to make feel sick at the thought of what they do. Jarrod Bleijie, you are spot on in what you say “this Bill is the start of the socialist reform agenda”.

To anyone who believes being gay is 'not natural' or it is a 'lifestyle choice', please reconsider. Most gay people do not choose to be gay, it is how they are born. They are simply a minority, just like left handedness, red hair or disabilities. To those who would like to critisise a minority, please go back to the 1950's.

To those who believe the children will be picked on at school for having two mums or two dads, this will only occur if those bullies are raised with predjudice and bigotry. Children naturally have no predjudices. To those who want to pass their intolerance onto children, shame on you.

Any homosexual couple who choose to have children are naturally going to have to go to a lot of effort to have a child, and so will obviously have thought long and hard about the responsibilities of parenting, and so be more prepared than some heterosexual parents.

There are so many children out there who are being raised by one parent, and don't have the influence of both sexes in the immediate family. Many of them turn out fine.

There are also so many cases where children have suffered and/or 'gone off the rails' in modern society, often from poor parenting, and those parents are generally heterosexual.

Unless anyone can show me evidence to refute these points (and I mean scientific, not bible quotes), I don't see any reason why a person/couple who are in a minority by no choice of their own, and are prepared for the responsibilities of parenthood, should not have the right to have children.

'As a person who was on a political party's policy committee, one policy that was on our agenda related to equal rights for same sex couples and other related issues." This quote from the editor of this paper.

Question: How can a journalist be considered credible when he dabbles in these kinds of committees?

I thought Journos were supposed to be un biased - very hard when you're involved with such committees -- too close, Ed, Too close!!

- You have misread the comment - it was from a blogger to the Ed, not the Editor - Editor

unfortunately for the gay community it is it's own worst enemy. on the one hand they cry victim and display all the accompanying indignation when things don't go their way.

and on the other hand the vast majority of gays live obscenely promiscuous lives with very little regard for loyalty and decency.

statistics point to the fact that almost all gay relationships end after a short period of time.

one need only research the divorce rates of gay marriage in massachusetts which legalized gay marriage after enormous outcry from the gay community only for gay community to make a mockery of marriage with their divorce rates

This is sick
Homosexuals cannot breed so why should they have the right to even think they are entitled to be parents of a child
How are they going to achieve that ?
About time homosexuals got a reality check.
Homo couples = no children so accept that your choice of lifestyle and sexuallity should not involve innocent kids,they need a mother and father not a screwed up scenario of gay parents.
Homos just do your own thing behind closed doors just don't ever think you are entitled to be parents and in fact there should be a law against homosexuality
Brad

109 blogs so far on this issue! Editor - is this a record?

While i got i mention in the blogs, i must now put in my two cents.

This is about LOVE,

Gay people are together for Love, not to do something unnatural, religious folk often misunderstand this, i know i did for a very long time. They are not born gay. They are not deviouts or misfits or what ever anyone wants to say about gay people, they are for Love.

Logical Thinker from Sippy downs has stated facts, and all couples that can have children do it out of Love. The question, i believe that should be asked is how far do we want technology to take us???

As for those stating the Bible (I do try to go to church most Sundays), "he that is without sin should cast the first stone".... anyone ??

As for the religious quoters...... try reading and quoting the New Testiment....not Old !!

interesting that the posts have shifted away somewhat from the core issue to a bit of bible bashing/defence thread.

Who has gone in to bat for the kids who have had no say in this?

Who has brought out their magic crystal ball and taken a peak at a future where perhaps many kids are raised by same sex couples?

Which pollies on both sides of the argument have actually canvassed their constituents?

Has the media done anything to help articulate the pros and cons of the case? sadly MIA?

Every same sex couple I know on every continent that I have been to have 1 common trait. And let me qualify this by stating I am no expert and I am not making a judgement and I personally have no issues with associating with same sex couples. So, this is an observation: with every same sex couple I have met, one 'wears the pants' and the other 'wears the skirt'.

Now why is that:? They may be the same sex but they are simulating a stereotypical heterosexual relationship. Clearly I will stand corrected because I can not imagine for a moment that this is the case 100% of the time - all I am saying is that this has been my observation over many years and across many continents.

Aside from all the emotive venting; is this the will of the people? Is this what the majority want in Qld, in Australia? Is this what people want as the acceptable norm? Or perhaps do people want something more 'conventional' whilst permitting exceptions on a case by case basis.

Again, is this the will of the people? Who did the pollies canvas and when?

At last!

Good on you, curriman!

I was wondering if anyone at all knew the difference between the New Testament and the Old. Very few, apparently.

Obviously debbiemagee doesn't - otherwise she would have no need of presenting an incorrect, facetious, facile and openly biased argument - which is demonstrated more clearly and made even more confusing by the fact that her point could have been made quite legitimately. The logic is sound - the method is not.

To put it simply - excluding the Decalogue (some also disagree on this), New Testament christians are absolutely not under Levitical, Mosaic law - as you well know, dm (or should).

It's basic.

It was Christ, himself, who said, "Suffer (let) the little children come unto me."

Correction - I should say, "dm AND sucoastlass".

Sorry, didn't mean to be personal or exclude anyone.

Suncoastlass and DebbieMaggie,I love it that is absolutely awsome,lol.For all thos epeople who believe a child should have a mother and a father what do you propose we do with all the fathers who walk away and abandon they're children?Do we punish them.Society excepts tham and supports them.Do you tell a guy who has abandoned his children he is wrong,no you don't,does society punish him in any way,no they don't.That is so hypocritical all you ppl going on about children should have a mum and a dad.Hello tell that to the fathers of my kids.I find if anything society condones these men abandoning they're children and then they go and have more kids which they abandon to.Gay people do not choose to be gay and are probably far better parents then a lot of hetrosexual couples.If a child is loved and cared for properly what does it matter who you are with in your bed?

no peanutgallery I dont think we can point the finger at the bible 'bashers' so much as those who use the bible to put their point across ----- those pious christians who feel that they only have the love of their Lord ----- God will get them in the end for bearing false witness, so let them ramble on..

for the Bible quoters - another reminder before you use the Bible to describe what Jesus (God's earthly manifestation, so the churches tell us) would want.

THE BIBLE WASN'T EVEN AROUND UNTIL 75 YEARS AFTER JESUS' DEATH!!!!!

So he had no part in writing this book, It is a book written by others, who simply assumed ( as today's Bible quoteers do) that they know what Jesus ( and therefore God) expect of us!!!!

SO its hard to use the Bible (God's "word") to quote Jesus if he's not actually putting pen to paper, surely???

How do we know the Bible is God's word??? Simple, the Assumers who wrote it, tell us it is, and we're silly enough to accept it, just as we're silly enough to accept the selective text used by today's God botherers!

I'm not gay, but I would probably rather raise a child with a woman than any of the many stupid stupid yobbo males that reside on the coast. Many of whom I'm guessing have commented on this article.

Poor excuses for human beings, uneducated, know-it-alls who have lived a nice little sheltered life on the coast and wouldn't know tolerance and compassion if it came up and hit them in the face. Kids need a hell of alot more than a man + woman, but as with everything, certain people can only see things in black and white.

At least same-sex couples might actually put consideration and planning into having a child, instead of getting knocked up one night for 5 minutes of bliss with your clumsy 17 year old boyfriend, or living a lie like many conventional couples, marriage - house - baby... now we need a big 4x4 to drive around Mooloolaba and pollute the earth, oh wait and a plasma tv, a huge 4 bedroom brick and tile house in the suburbs, and a playstation for the kids. But according to most people, THIS is the right way to raise a family, cos you're all so happy to defend it.

Most of the same-sex parents I've met are able to think outside the box better than anyone, and in my opinion this is what helps raise compassionate and intelligent children.

Its about time some ppl just pulled there finger out and really thought about the kids involved...... why do so many try and bring what they think the bible means into this? In the end all that matters is the child or children are looked after, cared, loved and raised with morals... and for ppl who still don't think same sex couples don't deserve children look at how many female/male couples separate then use the children as pawns..... let alone just the ppl that lay on their backs just to get centrelink payments...........

Exactly, mac000.

It is not about someones race, sex, nationality, colour, ideology or religion. Or even age, socio-economic status or, for that matter, motives (it seems).

It's about the children.

I agree. It's time we moved this "debate" on from christian bashing to another important aspect - bashing those that get Centrelink payments.

That should raise the tone... (ha).

debbie

I thought I was quite clear from the start that I was not arguing about the concept of same sex couples just how they are portryed in campagns such as this.

Very little is shown or even mentioned that same sex couples include males not just attractive lesbians.

newsblog - "THE BIBLE WASN'T EVEN AROUND UNTIL 75 YEARS AFTER JESUS' DEATH"

You might wanna do some checking there. ALL of the laws that debbiemagee and suncoastlass gave you were written around 1450 BC.

Since they provided you with no less that 8 or 10 quotes and I gave you just one, I naturally take it that your last post was aimed at them.

But even so, it's tedious when people who patently know ZERO about the Bible attempt to inform those of us that do.

Case in point - today's article -

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/...

Whether we are remotely religious or not, Mr Griffiths is guilty of gross mis-representation to his catholic congregation. He can, and should only resign - and, instead, join the English Gay Catholic Church - the Anglicans (Englicans), where his true sentiments lie.

Amazing ...a couple of days away in Sydney and come back to all this!

Must be a record number of comments.

The pilot said last night don't forget to put your clocks back an hour..maybe he should have said a decade or so.

In the words of that well known song...All You Need Is Love.

Yah, man!

Lennon, Marley, and Jesus! They had it down...

Skankin...!

This is definitely WRONG. Yes Mummy and Daddy!
Kids are screwed up enough these days without having to call there parents what? Dummy and Maddy? This is a joke! They will grow up not knowing what the hell normal is WRONG!

I often think... If only a person's right to have a child was based on their taste in music. Imagine how many cool people would be in the world haha

The last survey on this issue I undertook (2006) revealed that 48% of Aussies support gay parenting and 48% were against.

This is apparent above, and it tells us the community is utterly divided.

Any legislation that proceeds on this basis is doomed to failure.

In a democracy, there should be clear electoral consensus before a first draft is even considered.

"I suggest this is not the will of the people at all." Peanut Gallery, I suggest you should read the replies and the poll taken - the will of the people is clearly not in your favour. Society has changed while you have had your head in the sand. When people start viewing things as 'right' and 'wrong' or 'correct' and 'incorrect' you are placing narrow-minded boundaries on behaviours. What you may consider 'wrong' is just another point of view to the rest of us.

I am a lesbian. I have four university degrees and a PhD in education. What I do with my body and when I choose to have a child is my own business and neither you nor the church has any right to tell me otherwise. I would make a far better parent than 90% of the population.

Children's needs override adult needs or wants.

Following the above-referred-to survey, participants wrote back saying being raised by a single parent made it much harder for them to be parents themselves.

And as to other configurations, nature requires all social mammals to fulfill the mother and father roles. The experience of male/female parenting enables children to raise their own children, with balance.

The fact that some hetero parents are failures is not a logical argument against hetero parenting... that's like saying running should be banned because some people are slow.

A conscience vote.

In a democracy? You gotta be kidding.

First, what politician has a conscience?

Second, the politician's opinion does not matter. In a democracy, the political representative is required to survey the electorate and present this consensus in Parliament. This is government of the people, by the people and for the people... democracy.

Why are gay people in this argument allowed to be portrayed as sexual deviants?
"Imagine the child coming home from school to see their dad and dad slobbering over each other" ?

Ummm any child that see their parents in a sexual act will be scarred regardless of gay or straight.

I'm sorry but if you want to use the bible as your founded argument source - then why is it that most sexual predators and from the church or are regular church goers?
You are all hypocrites who are scared of change. In the 60's and 70's I'm sure you all would have been marching saying how disgusted you were by the laws introduced that allowed your fellow BLACK person to be given equal rights and allowed to marry a white person.
No wonder this community is falling to pieces, you can't even support one another you'd much rather abuse them and feel all high and mighty because the good made up lord told you to.

I pity your children you raise. What a miserable life they will lead not knowing what it's like to know how life can be what you make of it not what's been forced down your throat by scared hypocrites.

tonyryan - I'm with you.

"...as to other configurations, nature requires all social mammals to fulfill the mother and father roles. The experience of male/female parenting enables children to raise their own children, with balance."

There's plenty of evidence, particularly, because it's more common, that male children that are raised by only females will tend to be "feminised". i.e. because they've had no male input.

I've known plenty of single mums that go looking for a bit of male input or male energy for their kids - who hasn't. And v v, of course.

We can project and observe also then that the same applies to female children raised only by males - they tend to be "masculinised" as a result of no female input. These were straight parents, as I recall.

Both sexes are neccessary and have their role to play in responsible child rearing. Children need, and have the right to input from both mother and father figures to grow into psychologically balanced adults. It's the nature of the species. We are not single sex organisms.

This is the real challenge, as I see it. Acknowleging the true needs of the child. And it's a big one - because people have to get past their own stuff first.

And then, of course, there's the unfortunate kids that get all the wrong input from parents that might as well be Martians.

I'm going for a case by case basis - heterosexual or homosexual.

This law will allow childless couples another avenue to expore in order to have children. The law dose not and should not discriminate because of sexuality.
It has been said that the children of same sex couples will be bullied at school? No doubt it will be the children of these redneck homophobes brought up to be intollerant of others who will be the bullies.Children deserve to be brought up learning tollerance of others. Perhaps the redneck homophobes need to be steralised for the sake of childrens rights!
Adults on the Coast should remember the redneck politicians who made these discusting remarks and NOT vote them back next election.

debbiemagee-

your quoting of leviticus appears confusing and outdated.

that is because it is outdated in fact approx 2000 years ago it became outdated,

with the ministry of Christ, the mosaic law was done away with and replaced by the teachings of Christ himself as found in the new testament.

so yes- what is found in Levitucus is outdated and obscure, it is printed in the Bible as a history of the time and not as relevant to people today. (including you)

but i assume you already know this as you appear to be so knowledgeable on the Bible's teachings

ps. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing or in your case selective knowledge

Welcome to the new era of Sodom & Gomorrah! Disgusting but as predicted in the word of God the Bible.

Let's see the children of heterosexual couples actually having a full, nurturing, non-abusive upbringing that the opponents of this Surrogacy Bill have described above. Let's stop paying people, who cannot take care of themselves, to have kids through the Baby/LCD/Plasma Bonus. Then and only then should we worry about same-sex couples.

all-in-all we are all equal human beings.. we all have the same rights and if you disagree with it then obviously your an immature self centered twat..

now shut your guts.. and worry about important matters in the world..

I can not believe the narrow minded views of some people here.Is this actually for real.People still think being gay is some kind of disease or disgusting,perverted act.I was raised by a gay parent and I am hetrosexual and perfectly normal to.Being gay does not make you any different a person to being hetrosexual.I can not believe the attitudes of some people.Anybody would think it is like a couple of hundred years ago.Gay people spread AIDS no more then hetrosexual people I am sure.Being hetrosexual does not make you immune to AIDS.That is so ridiculous that peoiple think allowing gays to have kids is going to spread AIDS.Everyone who has mentioned about kids getting picked on,hello kids get picked on if they look different so should we prevent all parents who have kids that look a little different banned from having more,and what about those kids with a little extra weight,they get picked on to,and kids who are different,like mine who are autistic,should we prevent theyre parents from having kids so they don't get picked on.How is it being gay means your child can not grow up knowing what is considered to be the norm?How is it being gay prevents one from instilling morals in they're child.Are my children going to be scarred for life cuz they have no daddy?Does that mean I can't raise them properly as they have no mummy and daddy?There isn't anyone against gays on this pannel that has come up with a valid argument as to why gays shouldn't be allowed to have children.It's all just babble from uneducated people who haven't a clue what they are talking about and simply grasping at straws and saying absolutely anything because they can't actually think of a valid reason.There is no actual proof that having gay parents causes any more issues than being a single parent and so forth.None of you anti gays can even say anything intelligent as to why gay people shouldn't have children.Children need love and tolerance,children need to be taught right from wrong,they need to have boundaries,be loved,fed and given a healthy,stable upbringing.So whats being gay got to do with any of that and how does it actually prevent you from doing that.Those who have said gay couples can't concieve naturally so therefore should not have children .How dumb is that cuz this argument is all about giving people who can't concieve naturally the chance to still have children so if that's what your argument is based on then I guess the hetrosexual couples who can not concieve naturally should not have children either cuz its gods way and obviously he didn't want them to have kids or they would be able to concieve naturally.So what is this debate about again,gving gay people and hetrosexual couples the chance to have children they otherwise could not have.

There has been much written about "people like these" in this debate

I am unsettled, to say the least, to find that people like kennedy_reed still operate in this World

"Greed is good", said the slimy Gordon Gecko. If it makes money it must be ok - drugs, porn, gun-running....

Representative government? - Bunch of pansies!

xBANDITx you said "all-in-all we are all equal human beings.. we all have the same rights and if you disagree with it then obviously your an immature self centered twat.."

WELL apparently XbanditsX - "WE" don't all have the same rights, the rights of the child are removed by this BILL. So it seems that same-sex couple's inclusion in this bill is only of self interest, and by your logic that makes them "immature self centered Twats". [how harsh and disrespectful]]

A story:
The other day one of my children said:
"why does that car have a sticker of two mummies on it"
- I replied: "well darling, a car with a sticker of 2-mummies on it means that the people inside those cars use both the GPS and the referdex to find their way - but still drive like they don't know where they are going and they just can't find their way".

I added: "Cars with a mummy and daddy sticker on the back, mean that the people in that car only need the GPS and referdex when they are following a car with a sticker of 2-mummies on it, so that they can find an alternative way around them"

- she replied: "what does a 2-daddies car sticker mean?"
- I said that they don't use any form of guidance like GOS or the referdex and prefer to take dead end roads.

My point is, some topics of conversation are forced on ALL of us and our small children, with out invite - much like religion in all it's forms (inc -athiesm, evolution) .

Society panders to this, to the very very small minority, out of fear that an alternate view would be rendered discriminatory, and also because after all, we can't have a view other than a politically correct view, right?

However, people still detesting smoking as it causes cancer, and people detest drink driving as it causes fatalities, and neither of those are shot down in flames as being politically incorrect - why?, because people are focused on the action/affect and not the person.

When talking about same-sex actions and consequences or effects, you all just can't get past the person. IT's NOT ABOUT THE PERSON!

I, for one of many many hundereds of thousands of people, will be adjusting my government representation in the near future, I DON'T support such a pandora box bill of retarded negative social affect.

Like xBANDITx said: it should be about the children's rights and NOT the 'parent's rights' regardless of their sexual preference.

Thanks God we have Child-Safety either way.

i cannot believe what im reading. people are people and everyone has the same right gay or not. people are EQUAL, we are not entering a new decade we are going backwards! i this everyone deserves to have kids if they want. who are we to pick and choose who can and cannot have children. please grow up and realise we are in a new decade called the oneder years. i read some comments and im in disbelief. i dont believe in traditional families any more, the majority of children have more than one mother due to seperation and divorce. the sex of the parents does not matter who cares. like i said before everyone is EQUAL have we forgotten this?

Queensland is no longer the "Sunshine state" its more like the "Homo-phobic state"..

Every other state in Australia allows the surrogate parent law except Queensland.. why is this?

and to all you judgmental pricks out there.. go play in traffic..

live your own life and worry about other things apart form this minor thing.

xBANDITx: you asked "why is it that every other state in Australia allows the surrogate parent law except Queensland?"

- Well here in Australia we call that difference State legislation (which is different from Federal legislation).

In Qld we have road rules, Acts and bill that differ from other states - the ignorant assumption that Qld's solitary position on such issues is best decided by compliance only reflects the absence of reason and logic.

Basically each State has the constitutional right to legislate on any point that does not conflict with federal legislation.

BTW asking people to burry their heads in the sand on such important social matter is the very reason legislation like this gets through in the first place. Personally I think it's time the political landscape changes in our little town and issues like this are challenged in a more public forum and not the parliament house toilet block.

Debbiemagee: you said, among much dribble and stuff that wasn't interesting, that:
"Those of us atheists/"anti-religionists"/non-fundamentalists..."

LOL

You must be joking, you ARE the most fundamental blogger known to the SCD blogging community, and what's with the anti religious tag? you are a ranting indoctrinated atheist, and as I have told you before atheism is the religion of ignorance, so you are religious also.

Adjure - until another day

Sounds like a fantastic future to me!! Especially when the likes of you are telling me what I cannot do due to your personal ethics.

Patrick: you said:
"Sounds like a fantastic future to me!! Especially when the likes of you are telling me what I cannot do due to your personal ethics"

So Patrick, now take away everyone's "personal ethics" - so NOW how is a same-sex couple able to have a baby naturally?

Think about if I chose to cut off my legs, and as a consequence I could no longer use my legs, it's hardly fair, reasonable, equitable or realistic to expect everyone should feel sorry for me, or expect them to understand, or accept me and my choice - after all, by choice, I am saying that I no longer want the natural function and the biology of my legs afford me.

So...it's not about personal ethics that control same-sex couples, it's their decision to be a same sex couple that control them, and this by way of a consequence, restricts their natural capacity to procreate between their sexual preference [if that is even PC]. This is not rocket science Patrick just basic biology, it's not discrimination - simply freedom of choice, it's not another's personal ethics controlling same-sex people - it's their personal ethics telling them what they can and can't do.

The problem is: Homosexuality has no future.

Nobody here is questioning surrogacy itself!! It is a disgusting dehumanising process by which a living, healthy reproductively well woman is used as an incubator to satisfy some whim of some persons (usually someone too rich or too gay or too old or too sick ) to reproduce offspring that resemble themselves.

If it were truly a desire to parent that drives these people who wish to hire a womb - then they could adopt. It is disgusting to lower human babies to mere desirable procurable objects to gratify desire.

A child is a gift. We cannot all have one - but we can all be good loving respectful people who care for each other.

If a gay female couple wish to bear children - good on them - but - use their own wombs. And men don't have uteruses for a reason. Woman's brains (and this has been shown on mri scans in scientific research) change during the process of pregnancy and birth - nature uses the process to turn women into mothers. To create within them the nuturing love that babies need to thrive. To reject this is to reject science, commonsense and turns conception, pregnancy and birth into a laboratory game. It is not a game - it is the deepest form of human experience both intellectual, physical, emotional and spiritual.

Surrogacy is a barbaric and sickening slide of human beings into factory farmed commodities.

"He said the desire of same-sex couples to have children was a want, not a need.

“Two men can't have a child and two women can't have a child. It's the way I was brought up,” Mr Dickson said"

In response to this idiotic comment, we are all raised with the norm that when we get older we are very likely to want to have kids, call it a need if you wish. The fact is this need has absolutely NOTHING to do with your gender preference. It would matter if I was gay or straight or single, I would still have the desire to have kids.
Homosexuality (not that I like that term) is a fact of life these days, and people need to either except it, get over it, or shutup. You cant expect people to just "not be gay", theres obviously something in their makeup that has turned them this way. What messes up lives is the people that are against it, causing the gay person to go into denial or keep it hidden.
Im not against same sex couples having children, as long as they are bought up in a loving environment and any confusions are promptly sorted.
And no I am not gay, I just think its time it was accepted as a norm, because its never going to go away.

oldskool: are you saying that christians are allowed to pick and choose which parts of the word of god you want to believe in?

It appears that way.

Surely if you believe in god then you believe everything he says. Surely you aren;t saying that god is wrong?

Good to see someonesmarter back with her completely and utterly factually incorrect comments. It doesn't matter that SOS is offensive, we all find it a little funny and a little sad, but its disappointing that it has no idea what it is talking about.

debbiemagee- to respond to your questions

Question 1, no

Question 2, the law of Moses was redundant even before the birth of Christ. you are at best 2000 years out of date with your information

however, i'm sure you won't let the truth get in the way of a good story

Truth? Really?

So you are saying that god is not infallible and that large parts of the bible are wrong and that the single most important part of the book that is the basis of most christian, and other Abrahamic religions, the 10 Commandments is irrelevant?